Tag: engagement

Categories
conservation biology maori

Learning from rongoā Māori

Samuel Mann with Rob Whitbourne [ 58:41 ] Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

Dr Rob Whitbourne works in conservation in Whakatāne. We talk about how he came to be involved in conservation and how this is driven by
Rongoā Māori medicine.

(note: We apologise for the sound quality of this conversation, the main recorder failed, so this is the back-up. All hail the back-up).

Talking points

Always into nature

Lucky that our playgrounds and experience in life was always based around the bush. My father was always a bushman…when you grow up with people like that they impart on you a sense of understanding….You grow up knowing the names of the trees, where different birds nest, how trees change during the seasons

Sense of curiosity and understanding

(after teenage years in Australia) For a long time after I came back I had this sense of the New Zealand bush as this foreboding dark forest

I went to a rongoā wānanga, a workshop on traditional medicines…it opened my eyes, gave me a feeling of really knowing the bush

PhD focussing on traditional crops and how their significance is maintained today…The bigger question: how indigenous communities engage with research institutes?

The social side of knowledge, isn’t given the same focus – especially when it comes to Western Science and indigenous knowledge systems – the focus is often on factual knowledge and deeper assumptions, ontologies.. and the social stuff isn’t given that much attention..and that leads to a focus on difference…here’s the body of knowledge that one system has, and here’s the body of knowledge that this other system has, or a deeper level, we see the world this way and you see the world that way. That tends to draw out difference and it doesn’t give much room for common ground or interaction.

If we put more attention on the social side of things, on the practitioners, how can the people who do Mātauranga Māori, or people who practice indigenous knowledge in Peruvian communities, how can they best interact? How do the people interact? So the questions are of who has decision making control? How do you respectfully engage with and respond to each others knowledge traditions?

It’s too easy to say these indigenous ideas of nature having a spiritual element, well empiricism doesn’t deal with that so they’re incompatible. But if we say people who work and live in urban institutes and others who live in rural communities, they speak different languages, they have different values, they make decisions in different ways, how can those come together? That gives you more scope to work together.

We lose knowledge when our people are depleted. The two are the same.

We might be lucky to name 5 or 6 plants. We know the world we are familiar with, today we might know 300 logos, before it was 300 plants and animals.

How do we get people connected, to feel part of those places? We are those places

We need to find the spark that’s already there for people – in my case it was rongoā o wananga.

It’s a love of those places, and a love for each other in those places, we are those places.

Environmental management is really people management

A Māori perspective – we are all family (people and land), do you know your family, do you care for them? I’m surrounded by my family.

It reminds us that we are part of something bigger than ourselves.

Activist: Yes, I’ve always stood up to confront and fight for the positive. In a sense of accelerated disruption and destruction there’s a real need for urgency.

Superpower: A genuine commitment to the world around me and its people. I’m an idealist, positive. Maybe that comes from the sense of being I have.

Challenge: conservation on Māori land.

Advice: All of these things require the collective, none you can do on your own.

Categories
communication community computing participation

Empowering communities

robComber

Working with communities to empower them rather than to change them.

Samuel Mann with Rob Comber [ 50:32 ] Play Now | Play in Popup | Download


Rob Comber is a a Lecturer in Computer Mediated Communication based at Newcastle University’s Open Lab. With training in psychology, Rob has worked on the role of online communities and now is focussed on food, activism, urban space, and sustainability – all through a lens of civic engagement.

Talking points

How people construct, create, and maintain relationships with each other through some of the mechanisms of pressing buttons and friending each other

How can you create a community when all you can really say is “I like this person” or “I like this thing that they’ve said”?

“Do online communities have the same characteristics as real communities?” is where I started, but I found there’s no real difference between them – same values, people commit to them, spend time building relationships and doing things.

Online, digital, virtual isn’t replacing but augmenting what we are doing in our everyday lives.

Yes it is easier to press like…but you’ve done a lot of work to construct that community around you – so saying it is easier to press like is a bit like saying that if you are already a member of that club then it is easier for you to open the door and walk in.

So the idea that “slacktivism” is easy hides the work people have to do beforehand. It’s public too – you have to make a real commitment to say this is who I am. People can use that quite carefully to construct an image of themselves – this is the person who I am, and this statement is of value because I am making that commitment in front of other people

A challenge of looking at online communities is the romanticisation of offline communities.

Being exposed to poly-vocality, multiple voices and perspectives really enriches the way that we think about the world.

Why do we buy two to get one free, when we only need half?

Trying to find ways to connect communities together to improve the sharing of knowledge and expertise that they already have…inclusion and social sustainability.

Issues of resilience – looking at unrealised and under-realised capital that’s already there

We found a focus on behaviour change was quite useful if you wanted to stop someone from doing something, but very difficult to do if you wanted someone to try something new and to keep doing it.

Civic engagement: not saying “we know best we can tell you what to do and here’s how you can make your city better”, instead it’s “we know you know how to make your city better, we want you to tell us so we can help you do it”.

Working with communities to empower them rather than to change them.

Realise that we don’t have that power to magically change a community, it’s much more beneficial to work together with them.

Role of a Civic University means the local community is not just the place where we are, but it is the place that we are.

We have to engage with the issues that arise here, partly because it is a disadvantaged area, but also because it is fundamental to what a university should be doing.

We have to be really able to demonstrate value and if we can show that it is intertwined and embedded in the lives of the people around the university then you don’t have to struggle to find why you are doing what you are doing, it comes from the people who are there already.

Water, energy and food nexus – trying to understand how these resources come together…how they are connected as systems.

How do you know if engagement is doing good? You get a sense of it, do the people I engage with see value in that engagement? Do they see outcomes they might have otherwise not anticipated? Unlike behaviour change work where we decide what we will change and therefore can evaluate it…but with engagement…what has changed for you?

We try to activate the activists. Find people who will take on that engagement and take on the role of saying “we need something more here, we need something better here” –whatever they decide. It’s being able to say that when we have to leave, that it becomes sustained by the community.

What a community should be…agonism…continually questioning the world around us.

We’re good at looking at ourselves and asking “is it good now”, we’re not so good at asking “will we still be happy with this situation in 5, 10, 50 years?”

A sense of questioning the status quo, but also questioning the future of that

Questioning across scales, but identifying other communities where you might be having an impact is a significant challenge even before you think about what that impact might be.

A sense of belonging is important, place tied to history, but we rarely think of a sense of belonging in terms of future generations.

In the same way that we look to previous generations for our sense of place, future generations belong to us in that way.

People think of technology as the future, so let’s use technology to represent the future back to us now.

Engagement: there’s no simple message of how to convince people to change behaviour, the point is that you’re not really convincing them, they have to convince themselves.

The long term element of engagement is a time scale of 3, 10 or 50 years – compared to nice results after a year or six months or a year for publishing “this is what we did it was amazing”.

We recognise the easy life, but if that was an amazing future then we wouldn’t need to be subversive.

The questioning itself is an important part – we need to take this critical stance in designing technology, even if the response is that we won’t design technology. This is different from a basis (of computing) of selling more new stuff

It is important to say can we sell less stuff? Can we even ask that question?

(Sustainable Superpower): People to be able to see connections between the things that they do – spatially, temporally, socially.

(Success): Being and to work in a research lab that values engagement and in ten years time we might be able to say that we did some good in hat engagement.

(Activist): I wouldn’t see myself as an activist. I wouldn’t see myself as the person who has the responsibility as the person in the community who knows and who knows which action is best. Academic research, when it’s well intentioned, when it’s working best through engagement is facilitative – is the aim of that to facilitate activism? I think so. Am I a facilitator? I hope so.

(Motivation): People. Above all else, taking a humanist perspective, and saying people are good, we need to work from that as a basic principle of what we are doing.

(Challenge): Engagement – being able to demonstrate that engagement is useful.

(Miracle): 100% turn out in every bit of local, national government – for people to wake up in the morning and really think about the society around them and something that they are involved and not to just take the easy life of sailing through it.

(Advice): Think about the world around you, and the people that are in it, and work with those people.

This conversation was recorded at Open Lab in Newcastle in September 2015.

Categories
business

Placing sustainability professionals

James Irwin

Take time out to think about what you are doing, and once you’ve set that goal the world will conspire to help you.

Samuel Mann with James Irwin [ 57:04 ] Play Now | Play in Popup | Download


Acre is considered the global market leader in sustainability recruitment and related services. We turn the tables on manager James Irwin to talk about his own career, and where he sees the future of the sustainability professional.

Talking points

0:02:51 I thought the two go hand in hand, and still do, sustainability and commerce

0:03:08 Without understanding peoples’ motivations it is extremely hard to think about and to get change

0:03:18 To me that’s the key to sustainability – to make people care, and if they care they’ll do something about it.

0:03:30 The world we live in, a lot of people are driven by capitalism, the commercial side, so understanding both sides is critical

0:04:17 Everything turned out to be the complete opposite of what I thought it was, economics wasn’t precise answers, it was this is what people think and this is what the drivers are, whereas ecology, that I thought would be more subjective, was completely objective – facts, figures and scientific study

0:09:03 I really wanted to combine sustainability with sales, and business development…Acre kept on popping up

0:10:00 Acre…recruits across the sustainability space

0:10:06 The term sustainability means so many different things to different people, often for two people in the same company

0:12:11 Somebody who is, say, a marketing manager in a renewable energy company, are they sustainable, or just doing a job in a sustainable company, and does it matter to us? And does it does matter to us.

0:12:34 So we define two roles… dark green – that you can only do if you are sustainability professional, and light green

0:13:00 (can you be a sustainability professional in an unsustainable company?)….Yes…We’ve put sustainability professionals in tobacco companies, arms manufacturers, alcohol companies… from our point of view, if we can put a sustainability professional in that completely changes the landscape…

0:13:47 If we can put in a sustainability professional that completely change the culture in these companies…then that’s a really positive impact.

0:14:07 If we can make a positive impact in companies that might might be perceived as less sustainable, then that’s a good thing.

0:15:28 We’ve haven’t turned down anyone…but definitely we are prepared to take that call.

0:15:41 (what if it is clear it is just greenwash?)…We’re not privy to internal decisions…but from a candidate perspective an important question is where does the role report to? For a lot of people that’s the key to unlock if it is greenwash or genuinely a role where they want change to happen…We also get asked if the company is looking for greenwash or looking for genuine change to happen. But for me both those questions are null and void. Sustainability, health and safety – this whole space that we are in is about change

0:16:35 …making change happen. For me it doesn’t matter if the company is getting forced to recruit a sustainability CR team because of their shareholders or whatever the reason is, but if you can get the foot in the door, if you can go in there and create some projects and really show the business that it’s not one or the other – its not business performance or sustainability, they’re symbiotic, they go hand in hand.

0:17:05 Demonstrating that more sustainable business perform better, that’s the only way that sustainability is going to get a true foothold in the business world.

0:18:10 go with that…once you’re in there you have the opportunity to influence the board room, for us that’s the making of the best sustainability professional – t’s not “can they influence other sustainability professionals?”, it’s “can they influence the CFO, the CEO, the head of operations ?”

0:18:44 As the market matures, the influence and engagement is absolutely what’s important.

0:21:06 As you get into the top end…the technical skills become less important, and the soft skills become important, influencing, engaging, leadership and change – change is the big one.

0:22:33 Embedding sustainability in supply chains is a current trend

0:22:52 A core sustainability team might create ideas…but then the business has to own it. Unless they influence, engage and drive change then nothing will really change.

0:23:42 Acre365 is all about impacts… in the first year of their role.

0:25:14 (Common feature of success) Making ideas happen, making change happen

0:27:45 Sustainability is perhaps about doing itself of a job, making sustainability and corporate responsibility business as usual. But that’s only to a point, we need to think, we’re here now, what’s next…? And having that core hub of excellence sustainability is set to continue.

0:28:29 Another trend, that has been a surprise it has taken this long, is leveraging core business around sustainability

0:29:19 (Definition of sustainability) has to include business world, environment and people. Sustainable for business and ethical and environment

0:30:40 Such a big challenge (timescale of return on investment), something might have a return on investment of ten years, but those businesses want to operate at fast pace – they want to see a return tomorrow.

0:31:18 I’m hoping that we’ll see more data sustainability/profitability (like the McKinsey report on diversity and profitability)

0:32:41 Being a change agent has to be primary core linking people together, the best candidates we place

0:33:23 How do they influence the boardroom to change the perspective from the next quarterly report, to the next year, five ten, to 500 years- its huge challenge, possibly one of the biggest challenges in sustainability

0:33:46 It will happen when businesses understand that its not mutually exclusive

0:33:52 How do you link short term profit with long term sustainability?

0:43:55 We’ve never been busier, so hopefully, if we’re reflecting the market it’s a great sign for sustainability – we’re a bit of a litmus test.

0:44:46 We’re seeing some inspirational business models…where we need to get to as a sustainable society, looking as supply chain, social equity – Im not seeing in my lifetime those all being overcome, but as with any goal you have to put into bite sized chunks.

0:45:47 Compared to the 1990s, businesses are more sustainable

0:46:53 Good things happen in local communities, one of the challenges of sustainability is big cities

0:49:35 (Success) Growing the business

0:50:06 (Activist) I my own way I think I am, I have a vision of where I’d like society to be, I I’d hope that I’m using my skills at the moment…the best to influence people and in some part make that vision a reality

0:50:47 (Motivation) Helping to grow the business, being part of something new, sustainability, ideas, action…we embody all that at Acre and we place people that embody that.

0:51:20 Challenges: Keeping in tune with the market, what does sustainability mean – and it moves so quickly and we have to stay at the front of that, that’s hard to do – we have to be out there leading but also taking a step back to reflect and know what you are doing.

0:52:24 (Miracle) to give people the opportunity to understand the impact of their buying decisions. I think people are good people, but there’s a lot of forces out there that influence them. I’d like to see a product that could show people every time there are looking a buying something, this is the impact…

0:53:27 (Superpower) Time travel , taking people through time to see what impacts decisions had, seeing beaches covered in plastic in 20130 because of that thing you bought on holiday

0:54:37 (Advice) Spend time to think about what drives you and what motivates you.

0:54:44 I’ve had the benefit of talking with people throughout their careers, and I tend to find those who are truly happy…so seldom are those getting paid the most amount of money. Take time out to think about what you are doing, and once you’ve set that goal the world will conspire to help you.

This interview was recorded in London in mid-September 2015.